返回信息流我前两天不是发了个帖子号召大家上Nature去为叶诗文吵架吗? http://bbs.byr.cn/#!article/EnglishBar/63283
结果,Nature全文登出了Lai Jiang的comments并在Editors' Note中向叶诗文和误导读者们道歉~!撒花~~~
太给力了,哈哈~可惜那篇文章竟然把评论功能关闭了,扛不住中国网民的热情啊!哈哈我还想表扬一下他们呢~~~http://www.nature.com/news/why-great-olympic-feats-raise-suspicions-1.11109#/Ed_note
这是那个牛掰GRE范文的作者江来同学的人人网,宾大化学系的:http://www.renren.com/14463/profile
墙外的同学可以看看这个讽刺视频,《如何一秒钟变Nature编辑》,笑死我了:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCbfwi6oPtQ&feature=plcp
看来果然像我一个朋友说的那样,老外都是遵循强盗逻辑的,如果他们冤枉你,你忍,他们会瞧不起你,如果你奋起反抗,扇他一巴掌扇回去,他会从此尊敬你,觉得你牛……
顺便贴一下,女羽被取消资格以后我内朋友写的日志,结合此次事件来看,简直不能同意更多啊:
http://blog.renren.com/blog/243153521/864111401
“ 有人又要说了,他们是流氓不跟他们一般见识,自己要高风亮节就好了。我又笑了,你是在人家的地盘上玩,就要用对付他们的办法来。如果中国自己能参与规则制定你再高风亮节吧。
说个故事,当初刚来法国的时候,语言不够好,又被从小灌输仁义道德,碰到事儿忍啊忍啊忍,笑笑就过了。有一次有一法国人讽刺完中国人扭头就来句“你们中国人就会傻笑么?” 当时我就是个包子啊!!!憋的脸通红被一帮人呵呵笑气的只能装听不懂。
md!现在姐意识觉醒了骂人都不用标点符号了,上次居委会大妈来找事说电梯很脏你养狗所以推断是你说完就走,我直接把她拦住说这楼里4家养狗有些人一群孩子比狗还能折腾呢你为什么不去找他们?!你要么把监控录像调出来要么你去这四户养狗的人家里挨个警告不然我陪您?大妈当时就愣了,估计这辈子没见过反应这么快条理如此清气势很刁钻还小能说的中国人吧?愣过之后立即堆出笑容,连说对不起对不起不是这个意思我会挨个说的不是针对你。临走我加一句你一定要说哦,电梯弄的很脏我住的很不开心,那么贵的物业管理费再这样我就不交了!从此麻烦不仅断绝大妈后来还邀请我参加居委会会议说我的意见“宝贵而诚恳”。。。
这就是西方人的神逻辑!跟他们打交道就是豺狼虎豹弱肉强食,在他们的地盘玩就是要用他们制定的申诉抗议示威挥拳,这才能赢得尊重。说实话,看到中国体育官员弱弱的象犯错的小孩子一般说“我们虚心接受,以后一定整改”,我都能隐约听到西方媒体和奥运规则制定者的窃窃暗笑。”
My comments on facebook:
Happy to see that the chief editor admitted the errors, and apologized to reader and the 16-year- old girl Ye Shiwen. But why closed the comments below that article?
Trying to be polite and forgive them won't prevent you from being bullied....Their logic is the more you defended, the stronger and more welcome you are...Still feel sorry for those badminton players who were disqualified from the women's doubles after being accused of "not using one's best efforts to win", especially after the "intent of a crash to get a restart and go on to win the gold medal" in male bicycle was ignored by the judges and praised as "Olympic Spirit".
Knowledge is power.....
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EnglishBar机器人发帖
Nature主编给叶诗文道歉了!中国网民力量大啊…哈哈
rayer1798
2012/8/6镜像同步53 回复
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9 条回复
以下为道歉更新,态度还是很诚恳的,也把自己责任撇的挺清楚,神马系统承受不住自动删除评论啦,叶诗文进步时间点搞错啦~~~哈哈,所以才有那个讽刺的视频嘛:
EDITORS’ NOTE (updated 6 August 2012)
This article has drawn an extraordinary level of outraged response. The volume of comments has been so great that our online commenting system is unable to cope: it deletes earlier posts as new ones arrive. We much regret this ongoing problem. The disappearance of some cogent responses to the story has fuelled suspicions that Nature is deliberately censoring the strongest criticisms. This is absolutely not the case: Nature welcomes critically minded discussion of our content. (We intentionally removed only a few comments that violated our Community Guidelines by being abusive or defamatory, including several that offensively stereotyped the many Chinese readers who commented on the story.)
Many of the commenters have questioned why we changed the original subtitle of the story from “‘Performance profiling’ could help catch sports cheats” to “‘Performance profiling’ could help dispel doubts”. The original version of the title was unfair to the swimmer Ye Shiwen and did not reflect the substance of the story. We regret that the original appeared in the first place. We also regret that the original story included an error about the improvement in Ye’s time for the 400-metre individual medley: she improved by 7 seconds since July 2011, not July 2012. We have corrected the error.
We apologize to our readers for these errors, and for the unintended removal of comments because of technical issues with our commenting system. Below we reproduce one of the most thorough and thoughtful of the hundreds of responses we received. Beneath it, we continue with our response.
FROM LAI JIANG, Department of Chemistry, University of Pennsylvania
It is a shame to see Nature — which nearly all scientists, including myself, regard as one of the most prestigious and influential physical-science magazines — publish a thinly veiled biased article like this. Granted, this is not a peer-reviewed scientific article and did not go through the scrutiny of picking referees. But to serve as a channel for the general populace to be in touch with and appreciate science, the authors and editors should at least present the readers with facts within the proper context, which they blatantly failed to do.
First, to identify Ye’s performance increase, Ewen Callaway compared her Olympic 400-metre IM time with her performance at the World Championships in 2011 (4:28.43 and 4:35.15, respectively) and concluded that she had an “anomalous” improvement of around 7 seconds (6.72 s). In fact, her previous personal best was 4:33.79 at the Asian Games in 2010. This leads to an improvement of 5.38 seconds. In a sporting event in which 0.1 s can be the difference between the gold and silver medal, I see no reason for 5.38 s to be treated as 7 s.
Second, as previously pointed out, Ye is only 16 years old and her body is still developing. Bettering oneself by 5 seconds over two years may seem impossible for an adult swimmer, but it certainly happens among youngsters. An interview with Australian gold medallist Ian Thorpe revealed that his 400-metre freestyle time improved by 5 seconds between the ages of 15 and 16. For regular people, including Callaway, it may be hard to imagine what an elite swimmer can achieve as he or she matures and undergoes scientific and persistent training. But jumping to the conclusion that it is “anomalous” based on ‘Oh that’s so tough I cannot imagine it is real’ is hardly sound.
Third, to compare Ryan Lochte’s last 50 metres to Ye’s is a textbook example of ‘cherry-picking’ your data. Yes, Lochte was slower than Ye in the last 50 metres, but Lochte had a huge lead in the first 300 metres, so he chose not to push himself too hard and to conserve his energy for later events (whether this conforms to the Olympic spirit and the ‘use one’s best efforts to win a match’ requirement that the Badminton World Federation recently invoked to disqualify four badminton pairs is another topic worth discussing, though probably not in Nature). Ye, on the other hand, was trailing behind after the first 300 metres and relied on freestyle, in which she has an edge, to win the race. Failing to mention this strategic difference, as well as the fact that Lochte is 23.25 seconds faster (4:05.18) than Ye overall, creates the illusion that a woman swam faster than the best man in the same sport, which sounds impossible. Putting aside the gender argument, I believe this is still a leading question that implies to the reader that there is something fishy going on.
Fourth is another example of cherry-picking. In the same event, there are four male swimmers who swam faster than both Lochter (29.10 s) and Ye (28.93 s) in the final 50 metres: Kosuke Hagino (28.52 s), Michael Phelps (28.44 s), Yuya Horihata (27.87 s) and Thomas Fraser-Holmes (28.35 s). As it turns out, if we are just talking about the last 50 metres in a 400-metre IM, Lochter is not the example I would have used if I were the author. What kind of scientific rigorousness is Callaway trying to demonstrate here? Is it logical that if Lochter is the champion, we should assume that he leads in every split? That would be a terrible way to teach the public how science works.
Fifth is the issue I oppose the most. Callaway quotes Ross Tucker and implies that a drug test cannot rule out the possibility of doping. Is this kind of agnosticism what Nature really wants to teach its readers? By that standard, I estimate that at least half of the peer-reviewed scientific papers in Nature should be retracted. How can one convince the editors and reviewers that their proposed theory works for every possible case? One cannot. One chooses to apply the theory to typical examples and to demonstrate that in (hopefully) all scenarios considered, the theory works to a degree, and that that should warrant publication until a counterexample is found. I could imagine that Callaway has a sceptical mind, which is crucial to scientific thinking, but that would be put to better use if he wrote a peer-reviewed paper that discussed the odds of Ye doping on a highly advanced, non-detectable drug that the Chinese have come up with in the past 4 years (they obviously did not have it in Beijing, otherwise why not use it and woo the audience at home?), based on data and rational derivation. This article, however, can be interpreted as saying that all athletes are doping and the authorities are just not good enough to catch them. That may be true, logically, but definitely will not make the case if there is ever a hearing by the governing body for water sports, FINA, to determine if Ye has doped. To ask whether it is possible to obtain a false negative in a drug test looks like a rigged question to me. Of course it is possible: other than the athlete taking a drug that the test is not designed to detect, anyone who has taken quantum 101 will tell you that everything is probabilistic in nature, and so there is a probability that the drug in an athlete’s system could tunnel out right at the moment of the test. A slight chance it may be, but should we disregard all test results because of it? Let’s be practical and reasonable, and accept that the World Anti-Doping agency (WADA) is competent at its job. Ye’s urine sample will be stored for eight years after the contest for future testing as technology advances. Innocent until proven guilty, shouldn’t it be?
Sixth, and the last point I would like to make, is that the out-of-competition drug test is already in effect, which Callaway failed to mention. As noted in the president of WADA’s press release, drug testing for Olympians began at least six months before the opening of the London Olympics. Furthermore, 107 athletes have been banned from this Olympics for doping. That may be the reason that “everyone will pass at the Olympic games. Hardly anyone fails in competition testing” — those who did dope have already been caught and sanctioned. Callaway is free to suggest that a player could have doped beforehand and fooled the test at the game, but this possibility is certainly ruled out for Ye.
Over all, even though Callaway did not falsify any data, he did (intentionally or not) cherry-pick data that, in my view, are far too suggestive to be fair and unbiased. If you want to cover a story of a suspected doping from a scientific point of view, be impartial and provide all the facts for the reader to judge. You are entitled to your interpretation of the facts, and the expression thereof in your piece, explicitly or otherwise, but showing only evidence that favours your argument is hardly good science or journalism. Such an article in a journal such as Nature is not an appropriate example of how scientific research or reporting should be done.
EDITORS’ NOTE (continued)
The news story was triggered by a debate that was already active, concerning the scale of Ye Shiwen’s victory. Such debates have arisen over many outstanding feats in the past, by athletes from many countries, and it is wrong to suggest, as many of the critics do, that we singled her out because of her nationality.
The story’s intention as an Explainer was to examine how science can help resolve debates over extraordinary performances, not to examine those performance statistics in detail. Several analyses done by others convinced us that it was fair to characterize Ye’s performance as ‘anomalous’ — in the sense that it was statistically unusual. But we acknowledge that the combination of errors discussed above and the absence of a more detailed discussion of the statistics (which with hindsight we regret) gave the impression that we were supporting accusations against her, even though this was emphatically not our intention. For that, we apologize to our readers and to Ye Shiwen.
Tim Appenzeller Chief Magazine Editor, Nature
Philip Campbell Editor-in-Chief, Nature
Nature doi:10.1038/nature.2012.11109
Corrections
Corrected:
This article originally said that Ye’s time in the 400 IM was more than 7 seconds faster than in July 2012. It should have said July 2011. This has now been corrected.
References
Shumacher, Y. O. & Pottgiesser, T. Int. J. Sport. Physiol. Perform. 4, 129–133 (2009).
Show context
Manfredini, A. F. et al. J. Sport. Med. Phys. Fit. 51, 153–159 (2011).
ChemPort
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how important is it to learn a second language....
【 在 rayer1798 (谁会在哪一刻出现然后永不消失) 的大作中提到: 】
: 以下为道歉更新,态度还是很诚恳的,也把自己责任撇的挺清楚,神马系统承受不住自动删除评论啦,叶诗文进步时间点搞错啦~~~哈哈,所以才有那个讽刺的视频嘛:
: EDITORS’ NOTE (updated 6 August 2012)
: This article has drawn an extraordinary level of outraged response. The volume of comments has been so great that our online commenting system is unable to cope: it deletes earlier posts as new ones arrive. We much regret this ongoing problem. The di
: ...................